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mariasmon
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Sun May 28, 2017 5:26 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:IIRC, the Mosses really wanted to breed Zen to A.P. Indy but, by the time she finally retired, 'Indy was pensioned. So, they went to what, at the time, seemed the next-best choice; the young, highly-touted Bernardini. That match wasn't great, in hindsight.
The fact that she went to Tapit next doesn't seem odd to me. He had already established the ability to get runners from a pretty wide variety of mares, and maybe the opportunity to go to him was hard to resist.
Judging by the quality that the late Z Princess showed, War Front was a good match. It's such a shame that Z lost both those War Front offspring.
If she is bred again next year, who would you have her go to? Return to MdO (this filly looks adorable and nicely put-together) or try War Front again?
Giant's Causeway, please, for the love of God.
Catalina
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Sun May 28, 2017 5:33 pm

mariasmon wrote:
BaroqueAgain1 wrote:IIRC, the Mosses really wanted to breed Zen to A.P. Indy but, by the time she finally retired, 'Indy was pensioned. So, they went to what, at the time, seemed the next-best choice; the young, highly-touted Bernardini. That match wasn't great, in hindsight.
The fact that she went to Tapit next doesn't seem odd to me. He had already established the ability to get runners from a pretty wide variety of mares, and maybe the opportunity to go to him was hard to resist.
Judging by the quality that the late Z Princess showed, War Front was a good match. It's such a shame that Z lost both those War Front offspring.
If she is bred again next year, who would you have her go to? Return to MdO (this filly looks adorable and nicely put-together) or try War Front again?
Giant's Causeway, please, for the love of God.
Let's not. That would be another True Nick D Rating, just as the Bernardini breeding that produced Z Cosmic. The world may not rise and set on True Nick ratings, but surely they shouldn't be that far in the boonies when they predict an at best mediocre chance from a particular match.
sweettalk
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Sun May 28, 2017 5:38 pm

aww man, is it really that low? ugh, i wanted her to see him, too. that's really too bad :(
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mariasmon
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Sun May 28, 2017 5:39 pm

Catalina wrote:
mariasmon wrote:
BaroqueAgain1 wrote:IIRC, the Mosses really wanted to breed Zen to A.P. Indy but, by the time she finally retired, 'Indy was pensioned. So, they went to what, at the time, seemed the next-best choice; the young, highly-touted Bernardini. That match wasn't great, in hindsight.
The fact that she went to Tapit next doesn't seem odd to me. He had already established the ability to get runners from a pretty wide variety of mares, and maybe the opportunity to go to him was hard to resist.
Judging by the quality that the late Z Princess showed, War Front was a good match. It's such a shame that Z lost both those War Front offspring.
If she is bred again next year, who would you have her go to? Return to MdO (this filly looks adorable and nicely put-together) or try War Front again?
Giant's Causeway, please, for the love of God.
Let's not. That would be another True Nick D Rating, just as the Bernardini breeding that produced Z Cosmic. The world may not rise and set on True Nick ratings, but surely they shouldn't be that far in the boonies when they predict an at best mediocre chance from a particular match.
Yet, the Werk Nick is an A+++.
Catalina
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Sun May 28, 2017 5:53 pm

mariasmon wrote:
Catalina wrote:
mariasmon wrote:
Giant's Causeway, please, for the love of God.
Let's not. That would be another True Nick D Rating, just as the Bernardini breeding that produced Z Cosmic. The world may not rise and set on True Nick ratings, but surely they shouldn't be that far in the boonies when they predict an at best mediocre chance from a particular match.
Yet, the Werk Nick is an A+++.
Where can you tell? I didn't see where that info was freely available to the public.
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mariasmon
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Sun May 28, 2017 5:54 pm

Catalina wrote:
mariasmon wrote:
Catalina wrote: Let's not. That would be another True Nick D Rating, just as the Bernardini breeding that produced Z Cosmic. The world may not rise and set on True Nick ratings, but surely they shouldn't be that far in the boonies when they predict an at best mediocre chance from a particular match.
Yet, the Werk Nick is an A+++.
Where can you tell? I didn't see where that info was freely available to the public.
I feel like their website is fairly self-explanatory. It doesn't cost anything, as long as the stallion is sponsored and most KY stallions are.
lurkey mclurker
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Sun May 28, 2017 6:08 pm

I like the new filly, don't get me wrong and she's still brand-new so it's apples and oranges really... but Z Princess just seemed to exude so much class. The colt was a sad loss as well... so I'd be interested to see another War Front.

Or, you know, Deep Impact (or King Kamehameha for that matter, or Heart's Cry). :lol:

What about Empire Maker, now that he's back? Or... Kitten's Joy? :lol:

ETA to disclaim that I'm just throwing names out there :mrgreen: Didn't somebody mention POTN before? That might be interesting too...
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Miss Woodford
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Sun May 28, 2017 6:12 pm

Breed her to a sprinter or miler. Breeding her to classic horses is only producing plodders.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun May 28, 2017 6:22 pm

If we're fantasizing about a trip to Japan for the Big Mare, and you want speed...how about Lord Kanaloa? :P ;)
Of course, she's not shipping anywhere, IMHO. So, since she just had a nice filly by MdO, and maybe you want to balance her late-blooming, classic-distance ability with precocious speed, what about the gorgeous MdO son, Vancouver, who is now gracing our shores with his awesome Aussie presence? 8-)
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mariasmon
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Sun May 28, 2017 6:49 pm

lurkey mclurker wrote:What about Empire Maker, now that he's back? Or... Kitten's Joy? :lol:
I'm the biggeset KJ fan there is and I love me some Empire Maker, but those matings look like a recipe for slow.
middleground
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Sun May 28, 2017 7:09 pm

Uncle Mo--- if the inbreeding to Kris S. doesn't bother you. Or maybe Candy Ride or City Zip. And I wouldn't rule out War Front, despite the terrible luck they've had with him. That WF filly was a looker.
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mariasmon
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Sun May 28, 2017 7:50 pm

middleground wrote:Uncle Mo--- if the inbreeding to Kris S. doesn't bother you. Or maybe Candy Ride or City Zip. And I wouldn't rule out War Front, despite the terrible luck they've had with him. That WF filly was a looker.
City Zip would be good, but I'd be afraid an Uncle Mo out of that mare would be a Clydesdale.
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Insane Crazy
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Sun May 28, 2017 7:52 pm

She nicks an A++ with Ghostzapper. Could he infuse some speed?
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no, but a race where they sit down right on the horse!
Like to see some stuck-up jockey boy sittin' on Dan Patch? Make your blood boil? Well, I should say!
stark
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Sun May 28, 2017 7:53 pm

Waaaaay tooooo much attention being paid to the studs when the trainer doesn't train for speed, not ever.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Northport
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Sun May 28, 2017 8:15 pm

Insane Crazy wrote:She nicks an A++ with Ghostzapper. Could he infuse some speed?

He had so much speed himself, but he has graded winners over longer distances (Moreno, Shaman Ghost) and sprinters (Starship Truffles, Paulassilverling, Judy the Beauty). IMHO he really can do it all - but I may be the most biased GZ fan ever. He's not getting any younger, I can't believe he is 17, so I would definitely love to see this match.
weeeeeeeee
Horsebagger
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Sun May 28, 2017 8:20 pm

I'm guessing the Mosses would consider it slumming, but Candy Ride might add the speed to her foals they certainly need.
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Miss Woodford
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Sun May 28, 2017 8:43 pm

stark wrote:Waaaaay tooooo much attention being paid to the studs when the trainer doesn't train for speed, not ever.
Honestly it seems like he got very lucky with Zenyatta. The way he's training her offspring/sister has just been baffling to me.
firehorse
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Sun May 28, 2017 8:47 pm

Horsebagger wrote:I'm guessing the Mosses would consider it slumming, but Candy Ride might add the speed to her foals they certainly need.
If Candy Ride is slumming, my favorite Fort Larned would really be (well, that and it comes up as D on True Nicks) :cry: Disclaimer: I know nothing about breeding, just loved Fort Larned. After his Breeders Cup Classic win, his riderless 'win' in the Gulfstream Park Handicap was my favorite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfi3Nesd4Xw
stark
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Sun May 28, 2017 10:33 pm

Miss Woodford wrote:
stark wrote:Waaaaay tooooo much attention being paid to the studs when the trainer doesn't train for speed, not ever.
Honestly it seems like he got very lucky with Zenyatta. The way he's training her offspring/sister has just been baffling to me.
I get it that these are all graded stakes winners, a significant accomplishment for a smaller barn, but off the top of your head how many scream speed?


Zenyatta Mare $7,304,580 Grade 1 Winner Breeders' Cup Classic
Giacomo Horse $2,537,316 Grade 1 Winner Kentucky Derby
Tiago Horse $2,358,270 Grade 1 Winner Santa Anita Derby
Life Is Sweet Mare $1,670,000 Grade 1 Winner Breeders' Cup Ladies' Classic
Manistique Mare $1,311,800 Grade 1 Winner Vanity H.
Hollywood Story Mare $1,171,105 Grade 1 Winner Hollywood Starlet S.
Mr. Commons Horse $940,194 Grade 2 Winner Arcadia S.
Gormley Colt $920,000 Grade 1 Winner Santa Anita Derby
After Market Horse $686,280 Grade 1 Winner Eddie Read H.
Cliquot Gelding $638,260 Grade 3 Winner El Camino Real Derby
Harmonious Mare $625,420 Grade 1 Winner Queen Elizabeth II Challenge Cup S.
Starrer Mare $610,000 Grade 1 Winner Santa Margarita Invitational H.
Proposed Mare $552,600 Grade 2 Winner Milady Breeders' Cup H.
Calkins Road Horse $520,735 N/A N/A
David Copperfield Horse $503,510 Grade 3 Winner Bay Meadows Breeders' Cup H.
Madeo Horse $481,715 Grade 2 Winner Del Mar Derby
Radu Cool Mare $481,618 Grade 2 Winner Chula Vista H.
Blingo Gelding $474,348 Grade 2 Winner San Antonio S.
Stanwyck Mare $474,250 Grade 3 Winner Turnback the Alarm H.
Neko Bay Horse $473,020 Grade 2 Winner San Pasqual H.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
BigCountry
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Sun May 28, 2017 11:19 pm

Miss Woodford wrote:Breed her to a sprinter or miler. Breeding her to classic horses is only producing plodders.
Distorted Humor. Speightstown.
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