Ziconic

BaroqueAgain1
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Sat May 27, 2017 10:19 pm

Coz already looks like a Warmblood, so maybe hunter/jumper or, if he isn't too clumsy, dressage? And Ziconic might make a nice polo pony. :P
While I doubt that the Mosses are likely to geld and/or sell Zen's only two (so far) colts to make the races, they are so...um...unimpressive, that it's hard to imagine even a regional breeding farm wanting to stand them. Well, maybe Ziconic, because Tapit x Zenyatta just sounds so tempting.
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CoronadosQuest
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Sat May 27, 2017 11:38 pm

Maybe they want to be steeplechasers like Mr Hot Stuff did
firehorse
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Sun May 28, 2017 9:59 am

Maybe they should put him back on dirt at a mile at Los Al, he needs a win to figure out what he's supposed to be doing? Maybe give him 1 or 2 more chances with different jockey then retire him if it doesn't work out. I doubt they'll geld he or Cozmic One directly after retirement, I would think they would breed him to some of their own mares at least and see what he produces - I do wonder if the War Fronts had survived if that would be the case though.
blamethewinner
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Sun May 28, 2017 11:49 am

firehorse wrote:Maybe they should put him back on dirt at a mile at Los Al, he needs a win to figure out what he's supposed to be doing? Maybe give him 1 or 2 more chances with different jockey then retire him if it doesn't work out. I doubt they'll geld he or Cozmic One directly after retirement, I would think they would breed him to some of their own mares at least and see what he produces - I do wonder if the War Fronts had survived if that would be the case though.
Running him a mile at Los Al is going to solve his problem? The horse has no speed and no ability. He needs to be retired.
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Sun May 28, 2017 11:54 am

firehorse wrote:Maybe they should put him back on dirt at a mile at Los Al, he needs a win to figure out what he's supposed to be doing? Maybe give him 1 or 2 more chances with different jockey then retire him if it doesn't work out. I doubt they'll geld he or Cozmic One directly after retirement, I would think they would breed him to some of their own mares at least and see what he produces - I do wonder if the War Fronts had survived if that would be the case though.
I can't imagine they'd breed to him as it'd be a waste of the mare.

The horse could win if they were willing to put in a claimer, but they can't because they'd be crucified. At this point, and for awhile now, it looks like they're just pouring money down the drain. I'd retire both to new careers.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
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Life At Zen
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Sun May 28, 2017 1:23 pm

Cozmic One needs to be retired. All he's doing is working. If he has that many issues that prevent him From running then just retire.

Ziconic has shown he has some desire to run. I agree he needs to be dropped in class to get that win. Whether or not that turns a lightbulb on for him or he just keeps lugging along in further races... who knows.

I feel like these horses have missed potential because they've been overworked for stamina. I feel like Baffert or Pletcher could've gotten more out of them. But then people would complain they'd be retired early. At least they might've had a win or two to stand on...
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Paradise Woods, Lady Eli, Songbird, Ziconic
Gormley, Royal Mo, Shaman Ghost, Constellation

Once upon a time there was a horse named Kelso.
But only once. ~Joe Hirsch
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Private Thoughts
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Sun May 28, 2017 1:46 pm

There have been other stallions who have done quite well that were abject failures on the track, but being well bred, were given a chance at stud, and went on to sire some very nice horses.

Night Shift comes to mind first of all. Alot like Ziconic. Super well bred, pretty lousy at the track over 3 years, but he sired among others In The Groove.

Fairy King is another, well bred but won only one race. He turned into a decent sire as well.

Immortality is also mentioned, well bred, never raced, yet sired a classic winner.

I think on his pedigree alone some place will give him a chance. If he was standing for a fee I could afford, I would take a chance, you never know when you might get a decent horse.
Lord Helpus
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Sun May 28, 2017 3:37 pm

As long as he is headed North, perhaps he could win at Emerald Downs?
Catalina
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Sun May 28, 2017 4:33 pm

One can't help but wonder whether they changed bloodstock advisors, as the TrueNick ratings for the first two sires are significantly below what one would expect for a mare of Zenyatta's standing. The next two sires had a projected A++ rating for a match with Zenyatta, which at least holds far more promise.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun May 28, 2017 5:16 pm

IIRC, the Mosses really wanted to breed Zen to A.P. Indy but, by the time she finally retired, 'Indy was pensioned. So, they went to what, at the time, seemed the next-best choice; the young, highly-touted Bernardini. That match wasn't great, in hindsight.
The fact that she went to Tapit next doesn't seem odd to me. He had already established the ability to get runners from a pretty wide variety of mares, and maybe the opportunity to go to him was hard to resist.
Judging by the quality that the late Z Princess showed, War Front was a good match. It's such a shame that Z lost both those War Front offspring.
If she is bred again next year, who would you have her go to? Return to MdO (this filly looks adorable and nicely put-together) or try War Front again?
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mariasmon
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Sun May 28, 2017 5:26 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:IIRC, the Mosses really wanted to breed Zen to A.P. Indy but, by the time she finally retired, 'Indy was pensioned. So, they went to what, at the time, seemed the next-best choice; the young, highly-touted Bernardini. That match wasn't great, in hindsight.
The fact that she went to Tapit next doesn't seem odd to me. He had already established the ability to get runners from a pretty wide variety of mares, and maybe the opportunity to go to him was hard to resist.
Judging by the quality that the late Z Princess showed, War Front was a good match. It's such a shame that Z lost both those War Front offspring.
If she is bred again next year, who would you have her go to? Return to MdO (this filly looks adorable and nicely put-together) or try War Front again?
Giant's Causeway, please, for the love of God.
Catalina
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Sun May 28, 2017 5:33 pm

mariasmon wrote:
BaroqueAgain1 wrote:IIRC, the Mosses really wanted to breed Zen to A.P. Indy but, by the time she finally retired, 'Indy was pensioned. So, they went to what, at the time, seemed the next-best choice; the young, highly-touted Bernardini. That match wasn't great, in hindsight.
The fact that she went to Tapit next doesn't seem odd to me. He had already established the ability to get runners from a pretty wide variety of mares, and maybe the opportunity to go to him was hard to resist.
Judging by the quality that the late Z Princess showed, War Front was a good match. It's such a shame that Z lost both those War Front offspring.
If she is bred again next year, who would you have her go to? Return to MdO (this filly looks adorable and nicely put-together) or try War Front again?
Giant's Causeway, please, for the love of God.
Let's not. That would be another True Nick D Rating, just as the Bernardini breeding that produced Z Cosmic. The world may not rise and set on True Nick ratings, but surely they shouldn't be that far in the boonies when they predict an at best mediocre chance from a particular match.
sweettalk
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Sun May 28, 2017 5:38 pm

aww man, is it really that low? ugh, i wanted her to see him, too. that's really too bad :(
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mariasmon
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Sun May 28, 2017 5:39 pm

Catalina wrote:
mariasmon wrote:
BaroqueAgain1 wrote:IIRC, the Mosses really wanted to breed Zen to A.P. Indy but, by the time she finally retired, 'Indy was pensioned. So, they went to what, at the time, seemed the next-best choice; the young, highly-touted Bernardini. That match wasn't great, in hindsight.
The fact that she went to Tapit next doesn't seem odd to me. He had already established the ability to get runners from a pretty wide variety of mares, and maybe the opportunity to go to him was hard to resist.
Judging by the quality that the late Z Princess showed, War Front was a good match. It's such a shame that Z lost both those War Front offspring.
If she is bred again next year, who would you have her go to? Return to MdO (this filly looks adorable and nicely put-together) or try War Front again?
Giant's Causeway, please, for the love of God.
Let's not. That would be another True Nick D Rating, just as the Bernardini breeding that produced Z Cosmic. The world may not rise and set on True Nick ratings, but surely they shouldn't be that far in the boonies when they predict an at best mediocre chance from a particular match.
Yet, the Werk Nick is an A+++.
Catalina
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Sun May 28, 2017 5:53 pm

mariasmon wrote:
Catalina wrote:
mariasmon wrote:
Giant's Causeway, please, for the love of God.
Let's not. That would be another True Nick D Rating, just as the Bernardini breeding that produced Z Cosmic. The world may not rise and set on True Nick ratings, but surely they shouldn't be that far in the boonies when they predict an at best mediocre chance from a particular match.
Yet, the Werk Nick is an A+++.
Where can you tell? I didn't see where that info was freely available to the public.
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mariasmon
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Sun May 28, 2017 5:54 pm

Catalina wrote:
mariasmon wrote:
Catalina wrote: Let's not. That would be another True Nick D Rating, just as the Bernardini breeding that produced Z Cosmic. The world may not rise and set on True Nick ratings, but surely they shouldn't be that far in the boonies when they predict an at best mediocre chance from a particular match.
Yet, the Werk Nick is an A+++.
Where can you tell? I didn't see where that info was freely available to the public.
I feel like their website is fairly self-explanatory. It doesn't cost anything, as long as the stallion is sponsored and most KY stallions are.
lurkey mclurker
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Sun May 28, 2017 6:08 pm

I like the new filly, don't get me wrong and she's still brand-new so it's apples and oranges really... but Z Princess just seemed to exude so much class. The colt was a sad loss as well... so I'd be interested to see another War Front.

Or, you know, Deep Impact (or King Kamehameha for that matter, or Heart's Cry). :lol:

What about Empire Maker, now that he's back? Or... Kitten's Joy? :lol:

ETA to disclaim that I'm just throwing names out there :mrgreen: Didn't somebody mention POTN before? That might be interesting too...
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Miss Woodford
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Sun May 28, 2017 6:12 pm

Breed her to a sprinter or miler. Breeding her to classic horses is only producing plodders.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun May 28, 2017 6:22 pm

If we're fantasizing about a trip to Japan for the Big Mare, and you want speed...how about Lord Kanaloa? :P ;)
Of course, she's not shipping anywhere, IMHO. So, since she just had a nice filly by MdO, and maybe you want to balance her late-blooming, classic-distance ability with precocious speed, what about the gorgeous MdO son, Vancouver, who is now gracing our shores with his awesome Aussie presence? 8-)
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mariasmon
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Sun May 28, 2017 6:49 pm

lurkey mclurker wrote:What about Empire Maker, now that he's back? Or... Kitten's Joy? :lol:
I'm the biggeset KJ fan there is and I love me some Empire Maker, but those matings look like a recipe for slow.
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